Curse

edoclv · Apr 21, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

I HATE bots
/signed

ArianeB · Apr 21, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

/signed

But I fear this would probably go the route of the Rune trader. The best mods will skyrocket in price and players will go back to selling amongst each other. The less than perfect mods will fall in price until they are all but worthless.

Why fear? that is exactly what should happen. An upgrade merchant would work the same way as the rune or the dye merchants.

It would set price controls on perfect mods reflective of supply and demand, selling these at full value and buying them back at about 2/3rds the selling price. The open market would still be popular as people try to sell at greater than the merchant buy price and buyers try to buy at less than merchant sell price.

Black dye trades on the open market at about 6.5K which is a good deal for both the buyer (rather than dye trader at 8K) and the seller (dye trader buys black at 5K)

But the other advantage of a weapons mod trader is availability of basic mods. I like the elemental bow strings, because if you know when and where to use them they are better than any other strings. But the elemental strings are hard to find. No one stocks them, because they are not profitable. Hence they are hard to find in the open market.

azuresun · Apr 21, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

/signed

quickmonty · Apr 21, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Been hanging back just reading everyones thoughts as I wasn't sure one way or the other.

But now .................

/signed

and thanks all for a nice discussion without flames and such.

Adamant · Apr 21, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

/signed
I dont see why the merchant shouldn't have perfect mods, since pvp characters start with unreasonably perfect weapons

Count to Potato · Apr 21, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

/signed

Similiar thrread in Riverside Inn

Sientir · Apr 21, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

/signed

I've said many times lately that i'd like a weapon mods trader. I mean, for crying out loud, greens hardly suffice. What if you want a zealous sword of fortitude? there isn't a green for that. In fact, as far as i know, except for a bow, there are no zealous green weapons.

As was also stated, you can craft or collect weapons. But to actually make a sword or bow or axe from scratch is stupidly expensive because of the price of weapon mods.

The other issue is freakin' finding mods. Finding them is a world of pain, imo.

quickmonty · Apr 21, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

You may not find what you want, but a good place to begin your search

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/auction/browse.php/id=260

bilateralrope · Apr 21, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by milan

/Unsigned

If it was forced into the game then at least make it that you could only buy what you have unlocked previously in game, and it automatically adds it to the weapon - which then becomes unsalvagable, like collectors weapons.

Why would you want that ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zardeone

edit: I forgot, /not signed to keep greens the cheap things they are =D

I find this to be the main point of your argument, and I'm saying that the green trader will make the prices drop quicker as people can't force the price up by yelling louder than everyone else.

As well as letting you buy a green when you want it, not spend an hour going around spamming that you want to buy it, then finding someone and spending another 10 mins arguing about the price because they dont like the price lists. This happened while I was trying to buy flints fleshcleaver, a common and cheap green, I dont want to think what it will be like for the greens most people acutally want. When have you ever seen people arguing over the price of ecto or runes ?

twicky_kid · Apr 21, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

I would like to hone this discussion to something we can agree on without killing the market. Have a crafter that can add the mods so you cannot sell it to other players.

1. You can only mod a customized weapon at the vendor.

This would remove any selling abuse by players to make that perfect weapon for a couple of plat and sell it for 500k.

2. You can only craft a mod that you have unlocked before.

Again preventing abuse from players that just come into the game and have the perfect weapon set from day 1.

Would like a more discussion and AGREEMENT on this from readers. You can't make everyone happy but you can make the majority happy.

bilateralrope · Apr 21, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

You may not find what you want, but a good place to begin your search

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/auction/browse.php/id=260

But I want a fiery bow string now, but there aren't any there. And ever if there were, I would have to wait for the auction to end, then wait a few more days at least to get the string. Its only listed at 1-2k here.

This also adds another point, those price lists need to be kept up to date to be useful, but it takes a lot of work to keep them accurate. And thats assuming that the people running it dont manipulate the prices for their own gain, which is quite possible if the list is used by enough people. If its not used by enough people for manipulation, its probably also not used by enough people to be useful in the first place. But currently thats the only way for most of us to find out how much something is worth

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

I would like to hone this discussion to something we can agree on without killing the market.

And how exactly would weapon upgradde or green weapon traders kill that market ?

To me it seems that the rune and dye markets are working well, so what makes greens and weapon upgrades different ?

twicky_kid · Apr 21, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

And how exactly would weapon upgradde or green weapon traders kill that market ?

To me it seems that the rune and dye markets are working well, so what makes greens and weapon upgrades different ?

If the merchant only sold perfect mods it will make all non-perfect drops worthless. It would also allow that player to get the perfect weapon from day 1. You want to make things easier to obtain but you don't want to hand it out like candy.

Dyes don't vary in stats that's why the merchant never destroyed its market but rather stablized the cost.

Runes only have 3 grades of choice and 1 of those is not even worth using so really there is only 2 grades IMO.

Upgrade mods have a wide range of stats which determine value. That should be kept the same but control the cost of perfect or near perfect mods.

bilateralrope · Apr 22, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

If the merchant only sold perfect mods it will make all non-perfect drops worthless.

If the price of a perfect mod is too high, people will go for the one just below it. Like they do with vigor and absorb runes now. Why would they not do the same for weapon upgrades ?

Quote:

It would also allow that player to get the perfect weapon from day 1.

If they have the gold for it, they can do the same now since there are people selling endgame items in ascalon city. If they dont have the gold, they can't even if the trader was there. Now for someone to have the gold, eaither the item is cheap, or they have a farming character.

People with farming character can currently get that perfect weapon for their other characters on day 1 already. Those new to guild wars will not have the gold to do so.

What the weapon upgrade and green traders will do is:
Stablize the prices of the upgrades and greens according to supply and demand, not fix the prices at any value.
Make it so that if you have the gold, you can buy it when you want, not spend ages tracking down the person with it then haggleing over the price.
Make it so that when you have a valuable upgrade or green, you dont have to spend hours tracking down someone with enough gold to buy it

I still dont see how having a stable price and the ability to quickly buy and sell what you want when you want would destory the market.

WasAGuest · Apr 22, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

/signed

Love the idea.

twicky_kid · Apr 22, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

If the price of a perfect mod is too high, people will go for the one just below it. Like they do with vigor and absorb runes now. Why would they not do the same for weapon upgrades ?

People with farming character can currently get that perfect weapon for their other characters on day 1 already. Those new to guild wars will not have the gold to do so.

People buy the next best thing because the price for a perfect mod is too high for a meer 1 point. If all perfects were available then why would you buy anything other than perfect? We want to keep the lower grades sellable too not just perfects.

NO PERSON HAS A FARMING CHARACTER FROM DAY 1.

If you do you bought your account from someone else. The point is the new player that just started GW would not be able to walk to the merchant with the gold he was able to scrounge up and buy the perfect mods and attach them to a collectors weapon on day 1 and be set for the rest of his GW life. We are trying to make the mods more affordable for casual player and faster to find. Not destroy the entire market or trade.

Shika Xblade · Apr 22, 2006, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayne Nightfyre

/signed!

It is simply stupid to have to pay 120k+ for a Sword Pommel of Fortitude +30.

You could always just pay like 40k for a +28...its only 2 health not gonna make any difference...psh...who needs perfectionists

Shika Xblade · Apr 22, 2006, 02:15 AM // 02:15

(sorry for double post)
with the topic, why not just have gold 15%^50% weapons traders for 20k? If your handing out all the perfect mods for TEN PLATINUM, then the market would collapse. Its called economics. You have to have good items, and bad items. You have to have rarer items than others. You have to have very high costing weapons. Some reasons being:
1> if everything was low priced, nobody would have the drive for money anymore. FoW armor would be like 500k at this scale, and everyone would be sporting it. In this case, not only would the weapon upgrade market be crippled, so would the ecto/shard market, since Fow is so cheap.
2> nobody would have any use for gold anymore. It would become worthless
3> the system would just collapse. Nothing would become of any value anymore. Everyone would have awesome items, which in perspective means nobody have awesome items

bilateralrope · Apr 22, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

People buy the next best thing because the price for a perfect mod is too high for a meer 1 point. If all perfects were available then why would you buy anything other than perfect?

Maybe because the price that the upgrade trader has is too much for you to afford, like the price of sup and major vigor runes is for new players so they settle for minor vigor till they can afford the next level up. People will pay that extra for the extra point, as people were buying sup absorb while it was at 100k. Also, people who can't afford perfect will settle for near-perfect, and some will stay at near-perfect because of how much extra a perfect stat would cost.

I'm talking about relying on the supply and demand code to determine the prices for the upgrades, not some fixed value. Sure, at the start there will be some issues as the price adjusts to the actual value, but they will only be short term.

Quote:

We are trying to make the mods more affordable for casual player and faster to find. Not destroy the entire market or trade.

Huh ?

1 - You haven't shown how this will destory the market
2 - By adding a trader NPC, we remove the possibility of people price gouging. Therefore the prices will fall to more reasonable levels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shika Xblade

(sorry for double post)
with the topic, why not just have gold 15%^50% weapons traders for 20k? If your handing out all the perfect mods for TEN PLATINUM, then the market would collapse. Its called economics. You have to have good items, and bad items. You have to have rarer items than others. You have to have very high costing weapons. Some reasons being:
1> if everything was low priced, nobody would have the drive for money anymore. FoW armor would be like 500k at this scale, and everyone would be sporting it. In this case, not only would the weapon upgrade market be crippled, so would the ecto/shard market, since Fow is so cheap.
2> nobody would have any use for gold anymore. It would become worthless
3> the system would just collapse. Nothing would become of any value anymore. Everyone would have awesome items, which in perspective means nobody have awesome items

If the prices are too low, demand would exceed supply. Then the traders pricing code will detect this and increase the price (as it did with sup curse runes the day after the AOE nerf). Since points 2 and 3 depend on point 1 happening, and a trader NPC (not a fixed price merchant) would prevent that, points 2 and 3 also dont happen.

darkraider53 · Apr 22, 2006, 02:59 AM // 02:59

How about the upgrade traders only sell upgrades youve unlocked. it would cost faction/salavaging one and money, get some use for faction in PvE

EDIT

maybe the upgrade traders mods could not be traded but the ones salavaged can

bilateralrope · Apr 22, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkraider53

How about the upgrade traders only sell upgrades youve unlocked. it would cost faction/salavaging one and money, get some use for faction in PvE

EDIT

maybe the upgrade traders mods could not be traded but the ones salavaged can

For your first point, why would that be a good idea for the pure PvE player ?

For your second, have you ever seen someone buy a rune from a trader then try to trade it with another player ?
I haven't, and thats because it costs more from to buy from a trader than another player is willing to pay you for it (if they wanted to pay the traders price, they would of gone to the trader. If they are willing to pay more, they are stupid ). So this would happen anyway, once the traders price settles.